Nuclear Generation in NZ?, 10°

Rory C. 15°

We are at a point in time were we in the words of a famous Scottish engineer "need more power".

NZ is lucky that 60% of our electricity is generated from hydro-electric methods.

Does anyone disagree that in coming years we will need more capacity?

If not then where is it going to come from? What are our options?

Today we have:
1) Solar,
2) Wind,
3) Other alternative,
4) Coal / gas / other fossil fuel,
5) Nuclear,
6) Hydro.

As a lean green country we lean towards the alternative forms of electricity generation, Solar and Wind. Although I do not have the figures to hand, I am fairly sure that the footprint required to provide our future energy needs from Solar and Wind is huge, which makes relying on these two as a primary source of generation unlikely. Mainly because the land that would be required is already being used for grazing, crops, and living.

Other alternative generation? Tidal, ground geo thermal etc... I don't know enough to comment, but if they were realistic options we would probably see more commercial activities going on right now.

Coal / Gas / Other fossil fuel? Unfortunately this is what we tend to use when we need a bit of extra capacity. Need more power fire up Marsden B, a mothballed oil fired plant. It's one of the easiest methods of power generation, but also the most detrimental to the environment. Who would live next to a coal plant?

Nuclear? What has New Zealand got against electricity generated from Nuclear power? We're against nuclear warheads of course, but should that preclude us from using nuclear power to generate electricity? Nuclear power is cleaner than coal, the plant can be made to be fail safe, and the wast product can be used in other types of reactors. But the same question stands who would live next to a Nuclear reactor?

Which leaves Hydro - Electric generation. NZ is perfect for Hydro, it's clean, pollution free energy. I would live next to one.

But it would seem that NZ is paralysed by our options, I get the feeling that Kiwi's are waiting for something to happen, no one wants to make the hard choices. The danger is that we will be forced into a decision that is less than ideal.

Not in my backyard is our watchword.

It will get us into trouble, how can we tackle climate change if we can't even decide how to supply our electricity needs for the future.

10 replies

Personally I think that if the government subsidized solar panels, like they do in Australia and every new house was required to have one that would solve a hell of a lot of our energy problems. NZ is small country and yes we will need more power in the future but there is a way it can be done without nuclear and coal and gas. In fact I think you are wrong about land use with wind power as the land under wind turbines can still be used agriculturally - White Hill Wind Farm in Mossburn does just that. Also offshore wind farms are supposed to be very efficient and they don't use up any land.
Nuclear energy is all fine and good in this age but what happens millions of years from now when all that waste which never breaks down has covered the earth. It may only be a small amount every year but it is still something that is going to effect someone in the future and that takes up land disposing of it.

Written in April 2010

Nick R. 169°

How about the huge amounts of energy we can stop wasting? For example a car is around 1% efficient. Our homes are among the worst in the developed world for energy efficiency. We have a long way to go. Perhaps we should look to clean up out act before we look to more generation??

Written in May 2010

icp 12°

Here is a good answer from David Caygill:
http://www.electricitycommission.govt.nz/faqs/f... . Remember that Auckland rioted after Huntley tripped out. For a nuclear industry viewpoint: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf97.html . In my opinion Mr Caygill's arguments are sound and not adressed by the nuclear industry information.

Written in May 2010

1 person thinks this is a cool reply

In my past I was rough neck on geothermal drilling rigs. Wairakei was the second in the world geothermal power station. We have some of the best bores in the world. we also under utilise our heat from these power stations . re injecting cooled water back into the substrate.

Until nuclear power plants are a lot lot cheaper they are not an option here. along with the David longy lead mind set we seem to have an aversion to nuclear anything.

How do you spell longey ?

Written in June 2010

Nick R. 169°

That's Lange.
As I siad above, the best dollars are spent on reducing the loss of energy in the first place. "Saved energy has three times the return" [on new energy generated] (Listener, June 12-18). Given our options for renewable generation in NZ we have a huge amount of untapped potential to explore before Nuclear generation stacks up economically. The minimum scale of a nuclear power plant would be too large to safely fit into NZ's power generation matrix. If it were to drop offline for whatever reason it would leave a gap that would be out of proportion in our supply chain, we just don't have the demand to fit that type of plant. ...And NZ'ers don't much like nuclear.
Wind is still uncool in most circles. As stated by the Rory above that is a NIMBY option.
Solar is promising in that it has the potential to have a zero footprint sometime soon... Rooftop generation.
Medium/small hydro may look good too as a low impact alternative to large hydro.
What are the economic disadvantages to micro-hydro? anyone?
Has there been work done to look at the ROI on micro?

Written in June 2010

icp 12°

Micro-hydro and mini-hydro are relatively benign and very cost effective (more so than wind). Like all technologies there are the "considerations": e.g. resource consents for altering water flows, reduced available summer flows, cabling distances from generation to user(expense & losses), debris and aquatic life diverters, durability ("it went in a flash flood"). That being said - the energy density is great (same goes for marine/tidal) and the (other than dry perod) availability is almost continuos (no battery bank needed, maybe), the equipment is far simpler (than any other RE).
Have a look at the eco-innovation folk for their range of small hydro equipment.
We recently had a(favourable payback)feasibility study completed for generating 40 to 50 kW off the waste water stream at our waste water treatment plant. It avoids most of the caveats mentioned above and will use the Pump As Turbine concept - run the pump backwards. On Poo water, no end to that.(no pun intended).

Getting back to nuclear... have a looook at this comprehensive article: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0601/S00155.htm . It's a show-stopper.

Written in June 2010

Rory C. 15°

I've gone a bit cold on Nuclear power, I can't remember where I heard it but someone recently said "Nuclear Power is old technology", and when I think about it I agree.

We are in an age were we should be coming up with something (be it energy production or manufacture> that produces zero waste. Whether it be dilithium crystals or micro hydro, whatever we do needs to be sustainable!

As an aside looking for efficiencies in the current system is all very well, but it is NOT additional capacity, and considering the fragile nature of our current generation capacity VS the exponential growth in energy requirements we NEED additional capacity that will keep up with demand.

Written in July 2010

Putting aside NZ's nuclear free status for a moment Piero references Caygill's good summary - proven nuclear does not fit our very sparcely populated, long country. Also unfortunately the engineers who actually knew how to design safe plants have been lost largely through the incident at Three Mile Island (see http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/f...), and others.

The answer lies (as Virginia suggests) with solar water heating, since this represents 30% of our current household electricity usage.

Heating water can use extremely poor quality energy and yet we use the (most expensive) highest quality mains supply suitable for sensitive computing equipment to do so. Whereas electricity cannot be stored, heat can in our water cylinders so with careful design solar makes perfect sense.

It is a pity that the Government was not doing far more to have every home in NZ growing solar heaters on their roofs.

Written in July 2010

Rory C. 15°

Good point Michael, generation at point of source is probably the ideal situation. You get rid of the inefficiencies surrounding the transportation of electricity and all the associated equipment.
Have you ever felt the temperature of the big green transformers sitting on the side of the road, they're generally 2-3 degrees above the ambient.
Imagine if every house in NZ could generate 1 kW hour per day, feed any excess back into the grid, and you'd never need a new generation source again!
We could make some rules around how much load a house could impose on the network, maybe make it a ratio of the energy they produce... it would provide a bit of incentive to increase home energy production.

I'm loving this idea!

Written in July 2010

I agree, although the transformers are usually pretty efficient. With the present state of our network moving the generators close to the load makes sense. However, there is absolutely no incentive for any home owner to invest in electricity generation until the suppliers will purchase units from us at the same price as they sell it to us for.

There seems little incentive for a supplier to do this. Government intervention/regulation is the only way this will ever happen.

Written in July 2010

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